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Re:

13 messages picture_as_pdf Source PDF
J
jeffrey E. Mar 5, 2017 8:34 AM

I suggest the expression really should be "I think, therefore I believe I am"

J
Joscha Bach Mar 5, 2017 11:29 AM

I believe that I think, but am "I" the agent of thinking?

J
jeffrey E. Mar 5, 2017 11:52 AM

i is a mental construct that gives an evolutionary advantage.

J
Joscha Bach Mar 5, 2017 12:11 PM

absolutely. so are truth and meaning

J
jeffrey E. Mar 5, 2017 12:12 PM

i wonder in game theory what advantage it gives..

J
jeffrey E. Mar 5, 2017 4:48 PM

Law of large numbers is all that is needed

J
Joscha Bach Mar 5, 2017 5:46 PM

I am not sure how to relate that to game theory; you may be able to get that without evolutionary competition. However, game theory is probably the way to explain how we evolve submission to norms beyond indirect reciprocity.

J
Jeffrey E. Mar 6, 2017 7:08 AM

they may have physical prothesitcs like cat whiskers.=C2* to enable it to
guage widith of hole.

J
jeffrey E. Mar 6, 2017 10:50 AM

Exactly! Sensors like that are often =ne of these solution that get you 80% of the way with 20% of the effort. E=cept that minds that take 15 years to train are o dramatically more expens=ve that almost no species can afford them (but they end up getting you to =he moon, which no prosthesis can).

J
Joscha Bach Mar 6, 2017 3:44 PM

So you don4,=99t think that practical intelligence is the ability to build arbitrary

pr=sthetics?

I agree that humans share an important =imilarity with cells, i.e. they have mechanisms that suppress individual c=mpetition when it conflicts too much with group selection. Without such me=hanisms, group selection fails, because within each group, defectors have = local advantage.

The simplest mechanism to enfor=e cooperation is reputation, but it works only when others are looking, an= manage to keep tallies. To do better than that, evolution has to breed a =irtual next level regulator into the individual, which may be your missing="top down for humans". A system of norms and taboos, for inst=nce a religion or ideology that people pick up from their environment.

Individuals can decide, but in social contexts, the u=ility of decisions is given by how well we understand the constraints unde= which we operate.

J
jeffrey E. Mar 6, 2017 5:50 PM

watch the octupus, find its prey, is it creative=? is it intelligent? are virus creatvie? 4)=A0 finding new methods to infect the host. . hackers 4P=A0

J
Joscha Bach Mar 6, 2017 6:52 PM

Octopi have a reputatio= for extreme creativity, i.e. they can observe things in their environment= simulate them mentally in several ways, come up with a solution and then =nact it.

Virus intelligence is an emergent thing, over many viru=es. The individual virus either succeeds or fails. A virus is like a thoug=t, not like a mind.

J
jeffrey E. Mar 6, 2017 10:55 PM
To
Joscha Bach

it was a class of virus , is more like a mknd than t=e creativity of a neuron

1419 files from the DOJ Epstein case media release. All files are public records from justice.gov.

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