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Re:

5 messages picture_as_pdf Source PDF
J
jeffrey E. Dec 6, 2017 5:48 AM

on a more fun note. is is pos=ible that learning how to write and read, in fact slows down your th=nking process. forcing children to write and organize th=ir thoughts in a medium that does not lend itself to speed. is=not natural?

J
jeffrey E. Dec 6, 2017 9:09 PM

no question in my mind that it is a huge ben=fit for the group. but my conjecture is that it is not n=cessarily good for the individual. like being a =ero ( throwing yourself on a grenade ) . good for the gr=up not so good for the hero. as writ=ng forces a linear slow pace. I wonder if in a large populatio=, handwriting wiill be correlated with G. =C2 any=way , I need to get my mind off the way you hav= been getting screwed. drives me crazy. =A0

█
█████████ Dec 6, 2017 10:51 PM

G=od to have a fun note.

I suspect that forcing children =o do anything is probably harmful. But it's possible to introduc= writing and (secondarily) reading in a way that seems to enhance thinking= That's the idea behind "invented spelling" (here'= a link to some of the work:

https://pages.wustl.edu/files/pages/imce/treima=/Read%20%26%20Treiman_Childrens_Invented_Spelling_final.pdf https://pages.wustl.edu/files=pages/imce/treiman/Read%20%26%20Treiman_Childrens_Invented_Spelling_final.=df= Back in the early '50s, a philosopher friend of mine (Israel Sc=effler) brought me some pages on which his two-year old son had written th=ngs that he thought were gibberish, wondering if I could make something of=it. It was

immediately obvious that the kind had learned the names o= the letters and was spontaneously stringing them together to express hims=lf in writing. And making interesting generalizations. Thus th= letter "A", pronounced /ey/, he used for the words "came,&=uot; "pet", "pat"; the letter "i", pronounce= /ay/, he used for "pie", "pot," "butt" . An= so on. It all made sense. Our kids did the same thing. =arol wrote some papers about it, Charles Read and others carried it forwar=. Turns out to be a great way to teach reading too. Kids spontaneous=y express themselves, often in creative way, and the transition to officia= orthography is not that difficult now that they have the general idea.

There's a debate about it in educational circles= and though I haven't followed it, my impression is that old-fashioned=forcing into a mold probably wins out, undermining the joy of self-express=on and possibly reading.

As you may know, Galileo regarded i=vention of the alphabet as among the greatest of all human inventions. Can=do no better than quote his own words. He regarded the invention of =he alphabet as "surpassing all stupendous inventions," asking =E244what sublimity of mind was his who dreamed of finding means to communicate his deepest though=s to any other person, though distant by mighty intervals of place and time! =f talking with those who are in India; of speaking to those who are not yet b=rn and will not be born for a thousand or ten thousand years; and with what facility, by the different arrangements of twenty characters upon a page!=E24.40

Shortly after, the same observati=n was made about the more fundamental matter of sounds (Port Royal Grammar= 1660). I discovered all of this about 50 years ago and wrote about =t. Unknown then, still unknown, in my view some of the most profound=insights in the human sciences.

Smart guys, the f=unders of modern science.

N
Noam Chomsky Dec 7, 2017 1:52 AM

If done properly, lik= offering free and creative opportunities for kids, I think it can be good=for the individual.

And with your immense help, for whi=h I can't express enough gratitude, we're working our way through =t I think

J
jeffrey E. Dec 7, 2017 11:04 AM
To
Noam Chomsky

like the military, can be goo= for an individual . but needs a group. 40=A0 I think "understanding" might be similar as a gro=p function as the visual system is for the individual. . =it needs collective input and then with a recursive interations focu=es on a concept

you should have the call w=th your children asap. feel free to send them debras mem= so they see what you see. her privlege argument m=kes no sense. you WANT the other side to see your =ustifications for your position. she is just trying to s=ay out of the mix. as she has done virtually nothing to =et you what you clearly are entitiled to. shameful </=iv>

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