Re: thread
Dear Jeffrey,
It was very fun talking with you the weekend before last. I hav= downloaded The Improvement of the Mind and am reading. I feel my mind imp=oving already ;-)
proposing
The conversation and your ideas fit in closely with work I've been doi=g and am
to do. Maybe this is not surprising because we've been ta=king about these topics for years. I've been traveling around (Santa=Fe, now in San Francisco, soon to be in Banff) and so have had time to think</=iv> more about what we discussed.
Here is a succinct summary of my own take. I know yours is some=hat different.
Information is a fundamental quantity, measured in bits.
Information can be random, like the typical string of bits one gets by flipping a coin 0101110110101000011 (I just flipped a coin and let heads = 1 and tails = 0), or it can be ordered, like the bit string 0000000000000000.
There is a technical definition of order and randomness: a bit string<=div> is ordered if there is a succinctly describable method, e.g., a short computer program, for producing it. By contrast, a string is random if the shortest program for producing it is the same length as the string itself. For example, the string consisting of a billion 0's can be produced by a short program: Print '0' 1049 times. By contrast, the shortest program to produce the string 0101110110101000011 is something like: Print 0101110110101000011. This way of defining order/randomness is called algorithmic information.
The interesting thing about algorithmic information is that
the short program can be hard to find. A string can look very random and still have a short program. For example, the first billion bits of pi, written in binary, have a short program, but if I just give you those bits, they would look statistically random.
This means that so far as we or any other information processing system is concerned, order/randomness is subjective: some informationadiv> can be ordered and non-random, but we may not be able to recognize the underlying order, so we treat it as random. That is, the ord=r is cryptic: we don't know how to decode it. This cryptici=y is the key feature for looking at both physical systems and human/socialadiv> systems.
Physical systems:
In physical systems such as a gas of molec=les, entropy is the amount of information that is required to describe the underlying<=div> motions of those molecules. Because the molecules are bou=cing off each other in an essentially random way, entropy is assumed to be random information.
Heat is energy that is encumbered by entro=y/randomness. The randomness makes it harder to take advantage of that energy.
By contrast, free energy is energy where t=e information required to describe how that energy is arranged is ordered, not random. Free energy is energy we can take advantage of.
Now comes the kicker: suppose that a syste= is actually ordered, but that order is cryptic. If we can't decipher =he order, we can't take advantage of it.
So whether energy is free or not depends o= our ability to detect its underlying order. That is, the availability=of energy depends on the computationall/decrypting ability of whatever system (molecule, microbe, human) is trying to take advantage of that energy.
Social/human interactions:
Human interactions are about the exchange =f information, plus other stuff (goods, services, money, etc.). Everything th=t is exchanged brings with it the information that describes what is exchanged, what can be done with it, etc. So for example,=a US Treasury bond comes with the specification of its price and its fut=re interest payments. A complex option comes with the speci=ication of what can be bought and sold when.
As a result, human interactions are awash =n information. Different people are capable of decoding/decyphering that information in differe=t ways. The ability to detect a pattern or order in information t=anslates
into the ability to take advantage of a social situation. =For example, the efficient market hypothesis states that fluctuations in the prices=/div> of a given stock should be essentially random. But if you happe= to possess some information that allows you to predice the future fluctua=ions of the stock, then you can make money.
Similarly, to play into you ideas about de=eption, when two actors enter into a transaction, each presents the other with informat=on about their obligations under the transaction. Each actor=looks at that information and judges whether the transaction will turn out to their own advantage. But because each actor perceives di=ferent patterns in the information, they can come up with different evaluatio=s of the future worth of the transaction.
Deception arises because one actor may hid= a pattern in the revealed information, a pattern that the other actor doesn't perceive,=/div> but that makes the transaction more advantageous to the first actor.</=iv> I've been told that this is called, doing business.
Talk some more?
Yours,
Seth
1, re flips. ordering is not my focus. &n=sp; my focus is that the program that says. as you appro=ch a larger number the total number of ones and zeros ( the fair coin flip=) , should be 50/50/ it is the
3
o=posite of information as that relates to the individual flips. , I maintain that the distribution of flips=may be described by skewing . A force that leads t= 50/ 50
temp and pres=ure
again re heat. we cant say anything =bout indiv particles. but we can measure their overall
social distributions of talents and characteristics,&n=sp; seem to follow the same distribution for years.
- 4 deception, relies on the concept of INTENTION.&nb=p; not well desribed.
Read the thread
Most of it is too technical so above my head
My two bits
Information is how consciousness creates order out of chaos
The play of Chaos / Order are complementary aspects of creativity =
ok, . so lets take the first step in healing t=e rift between you and the boys . its doable.
1 most of the conversations you have forwarded to me. ign=re the fundamental principle of any science inquiry. TER=S must be DEFINED. even a biz contract has that very bas=c tenet
2 I urge you to define what you mean by conciousness. &nbs=; cosmic. fundamental . truth , reality.&nbs=; etc.
be wary when you see the word proof or prove. =nbsp; it is only done in the language of mathematics. sa=e as the word infinity, it has many common use definitio=s , all fuzzy . in mathematics it is d=fined. by AGREEMENT. =3 is greater than 2, means nothing except in a very narrow form of mathematics.&=bsp; well defined and agreed upon BEFORE any next step i= taken.
Once you define your terms what follows must be consistant with =he defintion without word games
ie nothing is bigger than infinity , I had nothing=for dinner tonight, DOES NOT imply that what i had for dinner =onight was bigger than infinity. ::))
I have spent endless hours defining terms
People just roll their eyes
I will so so again
The rift is probably irreconcilable
Lets just have fun
Life is short
The C=opra Foundation http://www.choprafoundation.org/ http://www.choprafoundation.=rg/
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ryZ4SaSrL._S=500_SS115_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Genes-Astonishing-Optimum-Well-Being=dp/0804140138/deepakchcom07-20
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Genes-Astonishing-Optimum-Well-Being=dp/0804140138/deepakchcom07-20 Super
Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wel=being
http://www.am=zon.com/Super-Genes-Astonishing-Optimum-Well-Being/dp/0804140138/deepakchc=m07-20
<=span>
1